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response to fr lev re: dissenting position #1
You say that #1 is different from #2 because #1 involves abstinence only, whereas #2 involves NFP. Since NFP uses only abstinence, it would seem that you need to define the abstinence in #1 more clearly. The content of the action (or rather, inaction) is exactly the same. So if the only salient difference is the intention behind the non-action, don't you need to say more than simply that the intent cannot properly be to plan the timing or number of children conceived? What precise intentions would make it okay? What about a married woman who is told by her doctor that another pregnancy would likely kill her? #1 would mean no sex with her husband, at least until after menopause, perhaps decades away? And do you restrict this to only married individuals having sex together? While the Church clearly teaches that sex belongs only within marriage, does the belief that every act of sexual intercourse must be open to procreation trump all other moral values? Should a person who, while sinning by having sex outside of marriage, never use contraception to avoid pregnancy or disease because the procreation is always more important than mitigating the potential consequences? And what of a husband who, perhaps through a blog transfusion, has contracted HIV. Are he and his wife doomed to abstinence only and, even then, only if they are morally certain that no thoughts of contraception enter their heads? --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] ([[User talk:Fr Lev|talk]]) 11:48, June 29, 2018 (UTC)
:#1 is also different from #2 in that it offers some kind of coherent picture for what kind of sex is the Christian ideal (and why) and how other forms (fall short). #2 differs in that it seems to arbitrarily include one form of contraception while excluding others.
:NFP clearly involves a different kind of abstinence to the abstinence involving a longer period of time than a few menstrual cycles. You can’t separate actions and (non-actions) from intentions. In NFP, there is a co-ordinated plan to intentionally only have sex during sterile periods. Openness (the absence of any attempt to divorce procreation from sex) is the precise intention that would “make” such sex “okay”.
:This is the ideal – perhaps there are grave circumstances in which dispensations can be given, but they would have to be examined on a case-by-case basis. I don’t know what you mean exactly by “trump all moral values”?
Let’s look at each of your cases:
::1. A married woman told by her doctor that a pregnancy would likely kill her: contraceptive techniques have failure rates, so that even sex with such contraceptives would involve putting the woman’s life in danger. The natural approach seems to be abstinence, or removing the defective/diseased organ which is putting her life in such danger (e.g. a deformed fallopian tube likely to result in ectopic pregnancies or a uterus with a weakened wall that is vulnerable to rupture.
::2. Extra-marital sex: Why would a person who is having extra-marital sex and thereby knowingly transgressing the Church’s moral standards want to follow the Church’s instruction on contraception? Are we concerned that people who don’t subscribe to the Church’s standard that sex should only be inside marriage might accidentally just subscribe to the Church’s standards on contraception? This would not seem to be a concern.
::3. Husband with accidental HIV: This case is similar to #1. While sex barrier contraception would reduce the risk of transmission, it would still involve putting his wife’s life in danger, given the risk of breakage. Ideally, this couple would abstain (I’m not sure what your aside about “thoughts of contraception” meant), or obtain treatment (which I understand is prohibitively expensive in some countries) that would so reduce the husband’s viral load that he became effectively unable to transmit the disease to his wife. "
:Perhaps there are circumstances of extreme financial strain in which contraception might be allowed (ideally NFP – I agree that of the contraceptive methods, this seems the least transgressive of the ideal set forth in #1). However, here the greater sin lies with the Orthodox community of which that couple are a part for not offering financial assistance to this couple.
:"Doomed to abstinence"? From what tradition does that concept arise?
:I’d also like to revise my earlier statement: No synods or Orthodox theologians that I know of have expressed this position. But could you find a single Orthodox bishop that would excommunicate someone for holding this position? Surely the lack of such a bishop is evidence for this position being a valid Orthodox dissenting position.--[[User:Gmharvey|Gmharvey]] ([[User talk:Gmharvey|talk]]) 02:55, June 30, 2018 (UTC)
