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Talk:Ambrose of Milan

476 bytes added, 21:28, January 27, 2020
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My edit is not about St Ambrose, but about St Augustine. I changed his reference in a list of saints from "Blessed" to "Saint" lest the reader get the impression the others are saints but not Augustine. Lie it or not, he is a recognized saint of the Orthodox Church. Thee is some reference to this on the St Augustine page and its talk page. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] ([[User talk:Fr Lev|talk]]) 16:05, December 11, 2019 (UTC)
:I used "blessed" because I was not sure that Orthodox use of "saint" is universal. To check one thing, I looked at wiki page and found "blessed", and read the article's discussion about sainthood. I have no particular like or dislike regarding "saint", and regard it as a blessing that there is not the same "official word" in Orthodoxy regarding it as one finds with the Roman Catholics. What I do dislike are any claims within Orthodoxy to recognition, value, fitness, or reputation that extend beyond the matters they pertain to. Thus, what counts (for example) is the fitness of this or that teaching of Augustine, not my recognition or rating of it, nor another's. When the Church does not speak with one voice, it is clear that there is room to have our opinions, at least up to a point. I recognize him as a saint. I do not require every word he wrote to be of equivalent status to that of Scripture, nor even to be entirely right. I think that setting such standards upon even a saint's writing positions us to be judges of the quality of that writing, instead of considerers of the value of that writing. And once having embarked on a road to making judgments, we lie in danger of the kind of Phariseeism that Christ Himself so clearly denounced. God save us from "official recognition"! What is needed is "faithful recognition": the heart of Holy Tradition, and our confidence in the knowledge of Our Master. [[User:Evensteven|Evensteven]] ([[User talk:Evensteven|talk]]) 21:13, January 27, 2020 (UTC)
 
:Having addressed the matter that concerned me, I find I should make clear that my comments are not directed at Fr Lev. They are rather directed towards the attitudes that drive us to argue about whether or not Augustine of Hippo is a saint. My observation is that that attitude, and those arguments, lead to dissent, divisions, strife, and all manner of idle talk and distraction. [[User:Evensteven|Evensteven]] ([[User talk:Evensteven|talk]]) 21:28, January 27, 2020 (UTC)
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