Talk:Cherubim

Cherubim - Image

The image that is currently shown, while in Greek it says "Many Eyed Cherubim" it actually depicts the "Thrones", which are third in the order of Angels, just behind the Seraphim and Cherubim. The Thrones are described as being like wheels with eyes.

Ezekiel 1:15-21 (King James Version)

Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

Daniel 7:9 (King James Version)

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

This is an image with a Cherub on the right, as they are described as having four wings (two covering their bodies and two covering their face) as well as having many eyes (as displayed in the icon below). http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/380357966_d7fb37eb91.jpg

Description of Cherubim in Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 10:14-22 (King James Version)

And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle. And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar. And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them. When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them. Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims. And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD's house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims. Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings. And the likeness of their faces was the same faces which I saw by the river of Chebar, their appearances and themselves: they went every one straight forward.

However, Cherubim must also not be confused in iconography with Seraphim... http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DeC_4cBdDaU/ShDdKJpmzXI/AAAAAAAAATE/L3GnlrxPv78/s400/SeraphimEDITLCopen-1.jpg

Who are described with six wings, with two covering their faces, two covering their bodies, and two being used to fly. --Loukas11 20:18, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Hi Loukas11,

I think you are absolutely correct about this icon; it actually depicts Thrones, even though the Greek text labels it as: "Many Eyed Cherubim". The following historic icons (one of which you also mention above), show how Cherubim have been depicted traditionally:

http://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/Image:Garden_of_eden_mosaic.jpg

http://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/Image:Seraphim_and_Cherubim_--_Cathedral_of_Cefal%C3%B9%2C_Sicily.jpg

http://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/Image:St_Macarius_the_Great_with_Cherub.jpg

http://commons.orthodoxwiki.org/Image:Synaxis_of_the_Bodiless_Powers_-_Nine_Orders.jpeg -- the Thrones are depicted top center, similar to the icon presently on this article.

From these icons, especially the mosaic from the Cathedral of Cefalu, Sicily, it really seems that in iconographic depictions (of the six-winged + many-eyed Seraphim and Cherubim), they are either interchangeable or very very similar.

I propose moving the existing icon on this article to the Thrones article -- however -- it is labelled incorrectly, with "Cherubim" -- so we may wish to delete it on that account. My two cents.

In the meantime, i will add a couple of the historic icons above (depicting Cherubim) to this article. It would be good to have an iconographic expert comment here. Cheers, Angellight 888 00:29, January 10, 2011 (UTC)