https://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:Holy Trinity - Revision history2024-03-29T06:04:21ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.30.0https://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41832&oldid=prevASDamick at 12:17, October 30, 20062006-10-30T12:17:48Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr style="vertical-align: top;" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:17, October 30, 2006</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l10" >Line 10:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 10:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are no capital letters in Arabic or Hebrew. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 05:13, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are no capital letters in Arabic or Hebrew. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 05:13, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Hmm, I guess Dn. Andrew and I just disagree, in that case. One other note: I think this is about English usage, not about different Orthodox traditions. Whether or not any other language capitalizes pronouns referring to God is about as relevant to English Orthowiki as whether such language uses postpositions or SOV syntactic structure. Ok, I promise not to complain any more. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:59, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::Hmm, I guess Dn. Andrew and I just disagree, in that case. One other note: I think this is about English usage, not about different Orthodox traditions. Whether or not any other language capitalizes pronouns referring to God is about as relevant to English Orthowiki as whether such language uses postpositions or SOV syntactic structure. Ok, I promise not to complain any more. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:59, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::: FWIW, it was [[User:Basil|Basil]] who added that bit to the Manual, but I agree with him.  &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font size="3.5" color="green" face="Adobe Garamond Pro, Garamond, Georgia, Times New Roman">Fr. Andrew</font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <small>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</small> 06:17, October 30, 2006 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>ASDamickhttps://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41827&oldid=prevGabriela at 04:59, October 30, 20062006-10-30T04:59:32Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr style="vertical-align: top;" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 04:59, October 30, 2006</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l9" >Line 9:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 9:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are no capital letters in Arabic or Hebrew. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 05:13, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::There are no capital letters in Arabic or Hebrew. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 05:13, October 29, 2006 (CST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Hmm, I guess Dn. Andrew and I just disagree, in that case. One other note: I think this is about English usage, not about different Orthodox traditions. Whether or not any other language capitalizes pronouns referring to God is about as relevant to English Orthowiki as whether such language uses postpositions or SOV syntactic structure. Ok, I promise not to complain any more. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 22:59, October 29, 2006 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Gabrielahttps://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41812&oldid=prevArbible: /* Style */2006-10-29T11:13:44Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Style</span></span></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr style="vertical-align: top;" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:13, October 29, 2006</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l7" >Line 7:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 7:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:It was [[User:ASDamick|Dn. Andrew]] who formulated this part of the style manual, perhaps he would like to chime in here. As far as I understand it, it is a general convention in Church-English to capitalize personal pronouns referring to God. It is not universal however. This convention is clearly not the case in many other languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Personally, I am fine with either, and I generally do capitalize pronouns referring to God. The issue here, it seems to me, is consistency in OrthodoxWiki articles across disparate traditions. I'd love to hear more from Dn. Andrew on this. (Of course, the implied reference above isn't to the end of a sentence, but to the beginning, when a capital would be expected anyway.) — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:It was [[User:ASDamick|Dn. Andrew]] who formulated this part of the style manual, perhaps he would like to chime in here. As far as I understand it, it is a general convention in Church-English to capitalize personal pronouns referring to God. It is not universal however. This convention is clearly not the case in many other languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Personally, I am fine with either, and I generally do capitalize pronouns referring to God. The issue here, it seems to me, is consistency in OrthodoxWiki articles across disparate traditions. I'd love to hear more from Dn. Andrew on this. (Of course, the implied reference above isn't to the end of a sentence, but to the beginning, when a capital would be expected anyway.) — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::There are no capital letters in Arabic or Hebrew. --[[User:Arbible|Arbible]] 05:13, October 29, 2006 (CST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Arbiblehttps://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41810&oldid=prevFrJohn at 05:23, October 29, 20062006-10-29T05:23:36Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr style="vertical-align: top;" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:23, October 29, 2006</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1" >Line 1:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Style==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Style==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>There is a statement is our [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual#Capitalization|Style Manual]] that states, ''Other terms (including personal pronouns for God) leave uncapitalized, so use him in the middle of a sentence referring to God, not Him.'' (But at the end of a sentence?)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>There is a statement is our [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual#Capitalization|Style Manual]] that states, ''Other terms (including personal pronouns for God) leave uncapitalized, so use him in the middle of a sentence referring to God, not Him.'' (But at the end of a sentence?)  </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think personal pronouns referencing God should be capitalized. But the Style Manual says otherwise. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 11:27, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think personal pronouns referencing God should be capitalized. But the Style Manual says otherwise. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 11:27, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:In that case, I'd like to state that I think the style manual is just ridiculous in this rule. I might be wrong, but I thought it was standard to capitalize such pronouns. Though I understand the need for a set of rules, this one seems plain wrong. My two cents worth. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 23:36, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:In that case, I'd like to state that I think the style manual is just ridiculous in this rule. I might be wrong, but I thought it was standard to capitalize such pronouns. Though I understand the need for a set of rules, this one seems plain wrong. My two cents worth. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 23:36, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:It was [[User:ASDamick|Dn. Andrew]] who formulated this part of the style manual, perhaps he would like to chime in here. As far as I understand it, it is a general convention in Church-English to capitalize personal pronouns referring to God. It is not universal however. This convention is clearly not the case in many other languages, including Hebrew and Greek. Personally, I am fine with either, and I generally do capitalize pronouns referring to God. The issue here, it seems to me, is consistency in OrthodoxWiki articles across disparate traditions. I'd love to hear more from Dn. Andrew on this. (Of course, the implied reference above isn't to the end of a sentence, but to the beginning, when a capital would be expected anyway.) — [[User:FrJohn|<b>FrJohn</b>]] ([http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/User_talk:FrJohn&action=edit&section=new talk])</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>FrJohnhttps://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41809&oldid=prevGabriela at 04:36, October 29, 20062006-10-29T04:36:34Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr style="vertical-align: top;" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 04:36, October 29, 2006</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l3" >Line 3:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 3:</td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think personal pronouns referencing God should be capitalized. But the Style Manual says otherwise. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 11:27, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think personal pronouns referencing God should be capitalized. But the Style Manual says otherwise. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 11:27, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:In that case, I'd like to state that I think the style manual is just ridiculous in this rule. I might be wrong, but I thought it was standard to capitalize such pronouns. Though I understand the need for a set of rules, this one seems plain wrong. My two cents worth. [[User:Gabriela|Gabriela]] 23:36, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Gabrielahttps://en.orthodoxwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk:Holy_Trinity&diff=41769&oldid=prevAndrew: personal pronouns referencing God2006-10-28T16:27:34Z<p>personal pronouns referencing God</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>==Style==<br />
There is a statement is our [[OrthodoxWiki:Style_Manual#Capitalization|Style Manual]] that states, ''Other terms (including personal pronouns for God) leave uncapitalized, so use him in the middle of a sentence referring to God, not Him.'' (But at the end of a sentence?)<br />
<br />
I think personal pronouns referencing God should be capitalized. But the Style Manual says otherwise. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 11:27, October 28, 2006 (CDT)</div>Andrew