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Talk:Birth Control and Contraception

1,697 bytes added, 14:12, June 26, 2018
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St Jerome et al on coitus interruptus
:Please supply the reference to where St Epiphanius comments on Onan (not that I don’t believe you, I’m just not familiar with the passage). In any case, St Jerome clearly states that both Onan’s refusal to give his brother a child and his coitus interruptus were sinful. Not just one or just the other. While there’s no text in the OT that specifically states that coitus interruptus (or masturbation for that matter) is sinful, there are also no punishments prescribed for those brothers that refused to fulfil their levirate responsibilities. Nevertheless, Onan was killed.
The Panarion of Epiphanius, on the section "Against the first type of Origenist, who are shameful as well." I'm afraid that Epiphanius, an avid heresy hunter, wasn't very good at it. One of his targets for a time was St John C.! Epiphanius also joined Jerome in siding with Paulinus (who had been ordained by Arians) and against St Meletius of Antioch, who was supported by the Eastern Church. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] ([[User talk:Fr Lev|talk]]) 14:12, June 26, 2018 (UTC)
:The Septuagint for 38:9 does contain “to sperma” (twice), of which “semen” is a translation - both mean “seed”:
:Septuagint: “γνοὺς δὲ Aυναν ὅτι οὐκ αὐτῷ ἔσται τὸ σπέρμα ἐγίνετο ὅταν εἰσήρχετο πρὸς τὴν γυναῖκα τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτοῦ ἐξέχεεν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν τοῦ μὴ δοῦναι σπέρμα τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ”
:I fail to see St. Jerome’s translational error. In any case, what else would Onan have been fundebat/ἐξέχεεν/spilling when he introiens/εἰσήρχετο/went in unto Tamar in order to not give σπέρμα for his brother?
You are right about sperma. My bad. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] ([[User talk:Fr Lev|talk]]) 14:12, June 26, 2018 (UTC)
:I’m not sure what you mean by “Greek” views on marriage? Please elaborate. Also, how is approval of contraception any less unbiblical than its condemnation (by Jerome or whomever)? No verse either directly approves of or condemns its use. Is everything that isn’t forbidden in the bible moral, or edifying for the Christian? It should also be noted that “for the procreation of children” does not necessarily mean that its enjoyment it to be precluded, just that it is naturally oriented towards this (i.e. procreation is at least one of its teloi), and that actively preventing sex from leading to procreation would be unnatural. This, I argue, is very Orthodox, and very Patristic.
I had in mind Stoicism, and Clement's unbiblical view that "the law intended husbands to cohabit with their wives with self-control and only for the purpose of begetting children" (Stromateis 3.11.71).
The only verse in the entire Bible that can be twisted to be about contraception is Gen 39.9. It isn't. I'm not claiming that the Bible endorses contraception. No, everything that isn't forbidden in the Bible isn't moral, which is why we rely on the Church and not individuals basing their teaching on a verse of scripture that doesn't really say what they want it to say. I'm quite content with the state of the question as it is summarized in the Engelhardt quote. The Church has never condemned limiting births other than by abortion. Period. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] ([[User talk:Fr Lev|talk]]) 14:12, June 26, 2018 (UTC)
:Again, insofar as St. Augustine may have expressed views about the sinfulness of enjoying marital sex, he runs directly counter to St. John Chrysostom (whose views I would subscribe to). On the issue of the appropriateness of contraception, he does not contradict St. John. --[[User:Gmharvey|Gmharvey]] ([[User talk:Gmharvey|talk]]) 07:51, June 26, 2018 (UTC)
Augustine also runs counter to St John C. on having children. For Augustine, the only purpose of sex is to have children. For St John, and the Orthodox tradition at large, the primary purpose of marriage has to do with the couple. It is Augustne's error,
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