Jump to: navigation, search

Talk:Gregory the Dialogist

2,929 bytes added, 19:33, August 23, 2008
Why do they always bugthe admins with non-problems?
I am not saying that this is not a good or proper liturgy, as you may assume-- it's not perfect, but it is certainly better than the "Liturgy of St Tikhon". However, it is NOT the liturgy St Gregory authored, unless we wish to link the Sarum, Braga, and other variations of the Roman rite which have a better claim to authorship by St Gregory.--[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 18:34, August 23, 2008 (UTC)
:All this because I linked a reference of the Liturgy of St. Gregory to the OrthodoxWiki entry about the Liturgy of St. Gregory? I fail to see the outrage.
:My edit listed this saint's exact contribution to the Roman Mass, remarks it bears his name in his honor, then links to the OrthodoxWiki entry proving the fact: the Liturgy of St. Gregory (as I note on that Talk page, it is ''not'' called "The Liturgy of St. Gregory ''the Great''"). The Mass he celebrated at Rome was heavily edited long before the Great Schism, perhaps nowhere moreso than in the Sarum Use. (Ironically, the Tridentine Mass actually arrested medieval, post-Schism development as found, e.g., in the Sarum Mass, and turned back toward pre-Schism Liturgy -- but all this is immaterial to the entry.) As this is not a private blog, frankly your ''opinion'' of the Mass referred to on another entry is immaterial.
:I'm adding back the edits, simply because as this entry stands there is a non-word "ss" where "as" should be and an extra space where you deleted "erroneously." I also added a word about Gregorian chant. (I'm holding out hope perhaps there will be no edit war on the grounds the monks at Solemnes reconstructed Gregorian chant....) --[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 19:33, August 23, 2008 (UTC)
==Whether St Gregory should be ascribed authorship to the Presanctified Liturgy==
I have also removed the word "erroneously" from the question of authorship of the Presanctified Liturgy. When confronted with a choice between "modern research" that makes a general (but unproven) assumption versus what the Church has continuously taught-- that St Gregory is the author of a particular liturgy-- we go by what the Church teaches, and can note that modern scholarship debates that claim. Ironically, we find ourselves in a reverse of the above predicament, where we are adding a Saint's name to a liturgy codified ten centuries after his death and fourteen after its introduction into the use of the Orthodox Church. --[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 18:44, August 23, 2008 (UTC)
:There seems to be a confusing of "Tradition" and "traditions." The authorship of the Presanctified Liturgy and title given thereto are not Orthodox dogmas.
:Nor is there much question St. Gregory the Great had little-to-nothing to do with the Presanctified Liturgy of the Eastern Church. The way his name got appended to this text is outlined in the indicated pages of Uspensky. One can also turn to [,+Saint+Gregory+of+Rome.&source=web&ots=W1R0aZOQ6m&sig=jkKGIycwXryF2goZ5Z8w8lA4Z0g&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result ''The Year of Grace of the Lord''], p. 132. Even [ the website of one Orthodox jurisdiction states], "The Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is traditionally considered to be the work of the sixth-century pope, Saint Gregory of Rome. The present service, however, is obviously the inspired liturgical creation of Christian Byzantium." If anyone is interested in this argument, [ this link may also be interesting].
:Not to pile on, but you have talked yourself into a twist: on the one hand, you insist on keeping his name appended to the Presanctified Liturgy, to which St. Gregory made no contribution whatever, but you refuse to hear the Church call the other text "the Liturgy of St. Gregory," although he made significant contributions to it. --[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 19:33, August 23, 2008 (UTC)

Navigation menu