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In a monastery, a trapeza (or refectory), is the dining hall where monks and pilgrims gather for food and conversation (although monks don't usually talk during meals). The OrthodoxWiki trapeza serves as the main discussion point for our website. Please feel free to join in - ask anything, suggest an idea, make a comment. We're glad to have you here. For other, more specifically designated discussion pages, check out the Community Portal.

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Orthodox Dictionary

English - Russian - Greek - Romanian - Finnish - Swedish -> http://www.ortodoksi.net/dict/search.php HAP 00:47, January 5, 2007 (PST)


Asserted: We need to have an OrthodoxWiki barnstar. —Dcn. Andrew talk contribs 20:06, August 16, 2006 (CDT)

Go for it! — FrJohn (talk)

Project Ideas

Check out the discussion of project ideas at OrthodoxWiki:Project Ideas.

The Real Presence

How about a discussion of the real Presence according to Orthodoxy? It is hard to find good articles on this important topic online, and Eucharist is too brief in this regard. Willibald 23:59, August 23, 2006 (CDT)


Hello, I would like to request someone to put in MediaWiki:Recentchangestext the relevant interwiki [[bg:Специални:Recentchanges]] to the bulgarian recent changes special page. Thanks.

P.S. And... I would like to make a proposal: this extension acts like a forum inside the wiki and is better for discussions. Gregg 17:38, August 26, 2006 (CDT)
I've added the interwiki link and installed the forum extension. Haven't tested it out, but let's try it and see how it works. There's a sample forum here. — FrJohn (talk)
More help about the forum can be found here. --Gregg 00:59, August 31, 2006 (CDT)

Language Boxes

Anyone interested in porting over some of the language templates (the boxes that indicate user proficiency) from Wikipedia? It might be helpful in identifying people re: the various localizations. — FrJohn (talk)

I have started to do just that. Here is my personal "Babel project" with some of the work I've been attempting. I suppose recent changes and my user contributions would also provide a similar look. I hope the progress is satisfactory. Hellenica 21:46, November 30, 2006 (PST)
I'm definitely liking these wikipedia imports, Hellenica. The language boxes are extremely useful (Spanish, anyone?), and the personal user ones are just fun.Gabriela 20:49, December 1, 2006 (PST)

Cathedral of St. Petersburg, Russia

I've looked throughout the interweb and I simply can't find any place that says what the main cathedral of St. Petersburg is. Is it the Transfiguration? Kazan? I would think St. Isaac's would be "it" but non confirmation. Any help?


  • This may not be true today, but in the late Soviet days (1988, when I visited the city) when the present Partriarch Alexei was the diocesan bishop in, then, Leningrad he held services in Trinity Cathedral (the one recently damaged by fire) in the Alexander Nevesky Monastery, Lavra. Then, the Kazan Cathedral was a museum and St Issac's was closed. Wsk 12:16, December 3, 2006 (PST)

Romanian speakers: pls help ro.orthodoxwiki.org project

If you speak Romanian, please help also ro.orthodoxwiki.org - Fr.Julian

Dacă vorbiţi româneşte, nu ezitaţi să daţi o mână de ajutor şi proiectului ro: ro.orthodoxwiki.org - p.iulian Inistea 14:30, December 7, 2006 (PST)

WikEd editing tool

I've recently been using the WikEd tool on Wikipedia, with success. The author says it should work on other wikis running the latest WikiMedia software, which I know we do. Can someone with more technical knowledge than I take a gander at the page and let me know if the tool would work here? Thanks. --cholmes75 08:13, December 20, 2006 (PST)

I just installed it (using the instructions on the page linked above), and it works just fine. For now, just paste the entire code into your User:username/monobook.js page. I don't see any reason why we can't make a template, as they have on en.wikipedia, but someone with more Wiki experience (and probably more authorization, possibly FrJohn) needs to make that happen. --Basil 06:37, January 5, 2007 (PST)

Orthodox Understanding of the the date of the Last Supper

I understnad that most Orthodox theologians, as do I, follow the Gospel of John and do not consider the Last Supper a Passover Meal. If I understand correctly, one of the consequences of this understanding is the fact that leavened bread is used in the Eucharist in the Orthodox church. Are there other consequences, results, etc. of this understanding? It seems to me that the Synoptics agree with John, but have been misinterpreted.

I am writing an article on the date of the Last Supper, i.e., was it the Passover Meal (night beginning Nisan 15)or was it the night before (night beginning Nisan 14)? Apart from, or maybe along with, textual consideradions, the way the early Greek-speaking church understood the Supper must, it seems to me, be taken into consideration.

Not using unleavened bread points in that direction. Are there other things? I would be interested in orientation in this general area.

Note: I am 81, Ph.D. from Vanderbilt in 1963 in Biblical Studies, and speak English, Spanish and French. I would appreciate knowing about any relevant articles in any of these languages.

Thanks for any help. James M. Beaty

Hows does one use the talk page to reply to another user? Thanks.

I was recently informed that as the Passover Meal was always to be eaten in haste; the participants always stood during the meal. However, in John 21:20 we read of how the Apostle John "leaned on his (Christ's) breast at supper". Which would fit with a "regular meal". I.e. It would be eaten while reclined. -- Fr. Panteleimon

Uncategorized Images

Hello, I was wondering why in the uncategorized picture section of OrthodoxWiki there is pictures of the Pope? He does not relate to the studies or teaching of Orthodoxy ( At least not to my knowledge ). I know that there have been talks to try and create a greater friendship with the catholics and the Pope. But I still do not think there should be a picture of him on a Orthodox site. I am only 18 and I'm still trying to understand my religion more and I think people might get the wrong impression if they see the Pope on the OrthodoxWiki site. Am I wrong to ask this? Because on a earlier post I noticed that Dcn. Andrew said "OrthodoxWiki is dedicated to Orthodox Christianity." Thanks.

P.S. This is a great website and I learn a lot from it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by OrlandoOrthodox (talkcontribs) .

Although the Orthodox and Caholic churches are not in full Communion, there is often movement,in that direction. The biggest obstacle, to that happening is, antipapal feeling, coming from the radical wing of the Orthodox Church. This has been going on for decades. It's time to come together, and love one another, for all times.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deacongene (talkcontribs) .

When does a hierarch begin his tenure?

According to the canons of the Orthodox Church, at which point does a hierarch ascend his cathedra? That is, if he is elected by the flock of his diocese/metropolia/autonomous Church (where such elections are provided for) is he already considered to occupy his see? Or, will he assume his post only after his election is confirmed by the hierarchal superiors? Or esle, will he do so only after the enthronement ceremony (where such is provided for)? In different lists of hierarchs I have seen different dates marking the beginning of their tenure.

I thank You for Your attention and ask, if possible, to advise Church texts to confirm this point.


The term "Oriental Orthodox" is problematic, since it seems like a euphemism designed to avoid the term "Monophysite." The word "Oriental" really means "Eastern" so the term does not really distinguish the two sides of the debate. Also, the use of the word "Orthodox" implies an acceptance of the Orthodoxy of the non-Chalcedonians, which has still not been agreed upon by a consensus within the (Chalcedonian) Orthodox Church. I know that the term "Monophysite" is considered offensive by the non-Chalcedonians. Unfortunately the term "Miaphysite," coined by some to replace it, is a neologism that just doesn't work in the original Greek (would "miagamous" do as a replacement for "monogamous"?) and, in my opinion, serves to obscure the real ground of difference that still seems to separate the two sides. Since OrthodoxWiki is supposed to have a "mainstream Chalcedonian bias," wouldn't the terms "Chalcedonian" and "non-Chalcedonian" or "anti-Chalcedonian" be more appropriate? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mariner (talkcontribs) .

Hi Mariner, please sign you posts with three tildes, so we can know who is talking - thanks.
In my understanding, the term "monophysite" is not just offensive, it's inaccurate."Anti-Chalcedonian" may be correct as a historical reference, but perhaps not as a theological descriptor. "Non-Chalcedonian" would probably be the preferred term in my mind. "Oriental Orthodox" is generally understood, and does not, I think, cause much confusion. It also seems to be the preferred self-designation of the non-Chalcedonian groups. I don't have a problem granting them that name here. I do not think we need to go heresy hunting. Let us set forth our Chalcedonian understanding of Christology. If they can accept what we mean by this (and WHOM we mean by this), I think we are well on the way towards reunion. We may grant that language issues and imperial politics had a role to play in the division.
If you could document statements by non-Chalcedonian bishops and theologians who would consider Chalcedonian Christology heretical, I think we'd have more to go on in our conversation (and perhaps some of the non-Chalcedonian folks would like to chime in too). — FrJohn (talk)

Why I am Orthodox

I made a page when anyone can write some phrases to show why he is Orthodox (what is for he more atractive in Orthodoxy), why he haven't chosen an other belief (what aspects that he didn't like it has and it is absent in our religion), or, simply, some beautiful thought from his soul, concerning the Orthodoxy.

The advantage of this page is that there is not needing to wait a special state to write an article. Becouse each of us have such thought in mind and we have only to insert them here. This requires only a few minutes (If we have more complex thought, we are creating our new page!)

So, the page could become an ode to Orthodoxy, poem in which anyone can contribute and find something good for his soul.

At the end of page there are useful links that points to sites that promotes the Orthodoxy values.

The page is named Why I am Orthodox... And not Protestant, Catholic, Budist, etc. Live Apologetics

Mircea Romania 02:46, February 19, 2007 (PST)

That is an interesting idea, but OrthodoxWiki is an encyclopedia, and these recent new articles are not really encyclopedic. Perhaps they might better be hosted elsewhere. —Fr. Andrew talk contribs 15:36, February 19, 2007 (PST)
Mircea, I would recommend checking out the forums section in the Online Orthodox Communities link here and trying your idea there. Besides the fact that the aim of this site is to be an Orthodox encyclopedia, you'd probbably get a much better response at an active forum. Honestly, the same few people tend to contribute a lot of the material here. Gabriela 19:04, February 19, 2007 (PST)
Individual users may post things like this (within reason) on their user pages. I've moved the article there. — FrJohn (talk)

denominative aspects of Eucharist

Since Intercommunion is a central--for my point of view, the central--matter in (inter-)christian dialogue--since Eucharist is the heart of Ecclesiology, of our self-awareness as members of Christ's body; and since this site is a place not only for Orthodoxes who live among other fellow Christians, but also for they among them who strive to understand our distinctive character, i think it would be of great significance if the article dedicated to Eucharist was enriched with a section where the other Christian denomination's Theology and Practice about Eucharist will be presented. Of course that is not possible to be in a detailed and systematic manner, but it could be, at least, focused on the rationale we Orthodox deny Intercommunion with them though we do not deny other communication-relation in love with them.


Question: Autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church and Alexandrian Exarchate in the USA?

Does anyone have any information about an Autonomous Ukrainian jursidiction that was recognized as an exarchate of the Patriarchate of Alexandria sometime in the 1980's? Any information would be appreciated. ---Leonidas


Could someone explain me how to post picture in article. I hope that tomorow I will have Icon of Saint Sava of Serbia. ---Ddpbf

A question about a prayer in the original Greek

I am doing some research in Church history, investigating the validity of the technique of "historical criticism" using linguistics. :I am in the Byzantine Catholic Church. :My question involves the Stichera for the Office of Great Compline used, I believe, on December 31. It says, "The magi coming from the East adored God made man . . . they brought precious gifts: the purest gold as to the Eternal King." :My question is, Is the term "purest gold" used in the Greek? (Some critics say this is not a term used in the earliest ages of the Church.):Thank you for your kind attention. MaryKNH

You are referring to the third apostichon of the Great Vespers for December 31: Τοῦ Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ γεννηθέντος ἐν Βηθλεὲμ τῆς Ἰουδαίας, ἓξ Ἀνατολῶν ἐλθόντες Μάγοι, προσεκύνησαν Θεὸν ἐνανθρωπήσαντα καὶ τοὺς θησαυροὺς αὐτῶν προθύμως ἀνοίξαντες, δῶρα τίμια προσέφερον, δόκιμον χρυσόν, ὦς Βασιλεῖ τῶν αἰώνων, καὶ λίβανον, ὦς Θεῷ τῶν ὅλων, ὡς τριημέρω δὲ νεκρῶ, σμύρναν τῶ Ἀθανάτω, Πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, δεῦτε προσκυνήσωμεν, τῶ τεχθέντι σῶσαι τὰς ψυχὰς ἤμών. Your question is about the term δόκιμον χρυσόν. Your translation of "purest gold" isn't literally present in the Greek, where instead of καθαρότερον or καθαρότατον there is the positive adjective δόκιμον. Δόκιμον can be translated as "tested" or "tried" and in this context has the sense of "refined". Thus, "refined gold" is the best translation. Of course, refined gold is not that far removed from the "purest gold". Nevertheless, the English superlative adjective is not literally found in the Greek. I hope this helps. Leonidas


Can someone of sysops look on sr.orthodoxwiki.org and try to make interwikis to work. Also this would be nice if someone will make Special:Statistic to work. All the best --Joca 04:01, March 27, 2007 (PDT)

Hi Joca, It's looking great over there already! I've fixed the interwiki links, and the error on the stats page should go away once someone actually registers a new account on that wiki - let me know if it doesn't! — FrJohn (talk)

rel="nofollow" for the links

Can rel="nofollow" be removed from the <a> tags in the articles? This feature is enabled in MediaWiki by default to discourage link spam and vandalism. I'm not sure it would be a problem for OrthodoxWiki. Hopefully not, because it requires registration in order to edit pages, and unlike wikipedia, I haven't seen a lot of vandalism here. Thank you! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alexei Kojenov (talkcontribs) April 12, 2007.

I'm not sure rel=nofollow is even useful for that. What it does do is reduce Google rank. I vote for disabling rel=nofollow everywhere possible, so consider this a vote for disabling it on OrthodoxWiki. --Basil 09:55, April 20, 2007 (PDT)
Sorry for the delay on this. I agree (especially when we require login to edit), and I've disabled "nofolow" on all OrthodoxWiki sites. — FrJohn (talk)

Images from Wikimedia Commons

Do we have here some particular way to import images from Wikimedia Commons, or I must save first on my computer etc.? - Inistea 15:56, April 19, 2007 (PDT)

Fr. Julian, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you here. There are some automated import tools, but they're not worth the difficulty for smaller sets of images. For more extensive imports, check out the conversation at osource:OrthodoxSource:Photo_galleries and osource:OrthodoxSource:Images_for_Import. — FrJohn (talk)

Two subjects: Thank you, and A Correction

First, Thank you OrthodoxWiki for your wonderful article on St. Constantine the Great! I only wish you could have included the entire icon of him from the Hagia Sophia. Second, Thank you, Leonidas, for answering my question about a prayer in the original Greek. However, upon further checking I am sorry to say that I inadvertently misdirected you to the Compline for December 31. Please accept my sincere apologies for that. The actual prayer that I am inquiring about is in the Propers for Great Compline of the Nativity of Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the third "Aposticha" rendered in English as: "When the Lord Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, the Magi, coming from the East, adored God made man, and unfolding their treasures, they brought precious gifts: the purest gold as to the eternal King. . . " My question was, "Is the term 'purest gold' found in the original Greek?" Thank you all, in advance, for any help you can offer. With sincere best wishes in Christ, Mary


I've created edittools for el.OrthodoxWiki, it might be usefull on en. or any other OrthodoxWiki. Ofcourse you can modify it accordingly in order to suit you special needs. On βελτίωση please add any template you have for article's improvement. --Kalogeropoulos 13:03, July 2, 2007 (PDT)

Russian "Old" Churches

I'm a bit confused about the status of at least three articles:

  • Russian Old-Orthodox Church
  • Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church
  • Russian Orthodox Oldritualist Church

Do these represent different groups? Looking at the history of the Russian Old-Orthodox Church and Russian Orthodox Oldritualist Church, I can see that there must have been something ... but that has mysteriously disappeared. And the Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church article, taken from Wikipedia, has an external link to the OrthodoxWiki article Russian Orthodox Oldritualist Church. Clarification? —magda (talk) 07:41, August 8, 2007 (PDT)

Magda, I don't know the story behind these articles, and I'm not an expert in this area. It seems to me they would all be "Old Believer" churches, though I suppose The ROCOR parish in Erie, PA is a former Old Believer church that now is part of the Chruch Abroad, but that continues to practice the old rite. There are also a number of different Old Believer groups -- I'm not sure how they are distinguished in terms of names. — FrJohn (talk)


Not sure if this is the place for this, but here goes:

I have been wanting to convert to Eastern Orthdoxy for at least a year now. Eastern Orthodoxy to me seems to be the oldest church and probably the closest in nature to the original church of the apostles. The problem is that I have been brought up in a Unitarian/spiritualist home and lack knowledge of how to go about converting to Orthodoxy. If anyone here could help me I would be much obliged. --Gorig 02:34, August 25, 2007 (PDT)

Hi Gorig, Thanks for your note -- may God bless you on your journey! I'd recommend visiting around to your local Orthodox parishes. Find one where you feel comfortable and talk with the priest there. If you want to say where you're located, maybe we can help point you to a church. — FrJohn (talk) 10:18, August 25, 2007 (PDT)
Fr John's idea is definitely a good one; there's a list of parishes for every U.S. state on Orthowiki, so hopefully you can find one near you (or several, if you live in a large metropolitan area). But more specifically, if you're wondering what the actual conversion process consists of, it usually includes a series of catechism classes. How many and how long depends on your parish priest. When I began the process a couple years ago, for example, my priest held an after-Liturgy class two Sundays a month from October until April, when everyone in the group was baptized/chrismated (or bailed out at the last minute, in one or two cases). Each one lasted a little over an hour, and they covered basic theology, liturgics, a bit of ecclesiology, Orthodox spirituality, and lots of Church history. Of course, the detailed content depends on the priest, but you'll get the basics anywhere. Since you were brought up Unitarian, you'll probably need to be both baptized and chrismated, and a priest can tell you about doing so in due time. The best way to learn, though, is to go through a year of liturgical services, especially during Lent and Pascha. The Paschal service really is the best way to understand the heart of Orthodoxy—but you'll get there eventually(if you want, of course). Hope this helps. Gabriela 20:55, August 25, 2007 (PDT)
Thank you for your help. I live in Laguna Hills, CA, by the way. --Gorig 17:04, September 5, 2007 (PDT)

Toll-house theory

Who can tell me what is the content of this theory and the orthodox view of it. Arthasfleo 01:25, September 11, 2007 (PDT)

Not I, but it looks like there are some pages here to look into: On the Question of the "Toll-Houses" by Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky. —magda (talk) 17:08, September 11, 2007 (PDT)
OK. Thank you - Arthasfleo 23:23, September 12, 2007 (PDT)

Formatting of "List of parishes in [state]" articles

As someone who occasionally uses the "List of parishes in [state]" pages to find a parish when I'm out of town, I wonder if we couldn't put forth a standard for formatting these pages to make it easier to find such information? I'm from St. Louis, MO, and I've formatted the Missouri page so that parishes in a given metro area are all grouped together, with large headers for the metro area, and small headers for the individual municipalities:


In this way, if you're going to visit St. Louis, for instance, you'll easily find all ten parishes in the area, not just those located in the St. Louis city limits. Contrast this with, say, the Tennessee or Texas pages...


...where the font size difference between major cities and small municipalities is so small as to be barely noticeable.