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Talk:Liturgy of St. Tikhon of Moscow

3,959 bytes added, 20:36, August 4, 2008
Misinformation continues
While Willibrird clearly doesn't like the SASB, it doesn't change the incontrovertible fact that the SASB ''is'' also a fully authorized text in the Antiochian Archdiocese. To deny that is to claim that the Metropolitan of the Antiochian Archdiocese isn't competent to determine official texts, as his letter of authorization is printed in the SASB, which is printed by the Archdiocese itself. I fail to see why this should be a point of contention. --[[User:Fr Lev|Fr Lev]] 14:00, August 4, 2008 (UTC)
:Pistevo, Fr. Andrew, as I wrote contention comes in when people played semantic games with the wording of the Observations or the authorization of the Orthodox Missal vs. the SASB, ignored prayers contained in both, and overlooked actual AWRV/ROCOR praxis.
:The [ Observations] say St. Tikhon, in his negotiations, would want to introduce invocation of the saints, but it does NOT specify the canon ("anaphora"). Indeed, the Observations do not mention the word "anaphora" or "canon" at all. They merely say these prayers should be added into "the services in general." As I noted above under "Current Revision," both the '''''Confiteor''''' and the '''''Libera Nos''''' contain invocations of the saints, and both are clearly printed within the text of the Liturgy in both the ''Orthodox Missal'' and the SASB. This poster himself has stated the Memorials in the SASB invoke "blessed Mary and all Thy Saints, that, through their ''intercessions'', we with them may be partakers of Thy heavenly kingdom." He merely expressed his private opinion this "does not seem adequate." I am told that even in the parish that drew up the SASB, the referenced silent prayers are SAID, but since SASB was merely a pew book for the laity, silent prayers were not printed. And even this impressive list ignores the Propers of the Mass (and the Hours), which frequently invoke saints and angels -- but the point is more than sufficiently made.
:The English Office published by St. Luke's Priory Press is the AWRV's official, approved text of the Tikhonite divine office, according both to the ''Ordo'' of the WRV and to [ this paper by Fr. Nicholas Alford,] an AWRV priest, on the website of another AWRV parish, St. Patrick's. This text of English Office Matins and Vespers is available online (linked above) at: " & Vespers.pdf" (The space is part of the URL; I don't know how to get Wiki to link this properly). You will note the third collect for Matins, which begins "Defend us, we beseech thee, O Lord," asks "the intercession of the blessed and glorious Mary, the ever Virgin Mother of God, of blessed Joseph, of thy blessed Apostles Peter and Paul," of the parish patron saint, "and of all thy saints." Indeed, a certain ''vagante'' on the [ Occidentalis Yahoo Group] attacked [ this prayer specifically as a "Byzantinization"](!). Similarly, in the English Office both Matins and Vespers conclude, "When the Mass does not follow the Office, the Marian Anthem is sung." Such is general AWRV praxis.
:As noted above a) the Litany (not "Great Litany") is neither a ''liturgy'' nor an ''hour'' but a service of its own; '''''and''''' b) the ''Orthodox Ritual'' implemented the Observations' recommendation by merely authorizing the Litany of the Saints itself rather than an altered form of this Litany. So, this statement is false on two grounds.
:Among other faulty items, the ''St. Vladimir's Theological Quarterly'' article is the same one that alleges the AWRV added St. Andrew's name to the Canon of the Mass in honor of St. Andrew's AWRV Church in Florida! Of course, St. Andrew is an [ ancient part of that canon], added by Pope St. Gregory the Great. '''Published misinformation is still misinformation'''; adding it would actually ''decrease'' the value of this entry.
:This poster's header is correct that "Misinformation Continues" to abound about the Liturgy of St. Tikhon and the AWRV in general. This OrthodoxWiki page should be one place where readers can find accurate information, rather than misinformation like that circulated above. --[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 20:36, August 4, 2008 (UTC)

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