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Talk:Western Rite and Old Calendarists

1,524 bytes added, 02:59, August 3, 2008
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Count them if you do not believe me. --[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 20:17, August 2, 2008 (UTC)
::Of course, not all Milan Synod groups are Western Rite. (And I am told HOCNA is not alone in inflating its numbers.) Were one to count actual WR groups in the Milan Synod, would these outnumber all the Old Calendarist churches combined (including any Old Calendarists of Romania, Bulgaria, etc., ''if'' they have churches in these territories)? If so, how might one VERIFY this? The claim seems questionable. Thanks.--[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 02:59, August 3, 2008 (UTC)
There was NO editorial.
You once again deleted the whole article. It seems your "full of anti-WR screeds" argument is gaining ground, although I must point out again that the article is about mindsets and should be subjected to further revision. However, you made clear at the outset that you don't want these words to exist at all.--[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 20:17, August 2, 2008 (UTC)
: I did not delete the entire article but preserved as much as could be readily verified and considered on-topic (which, I grant, was very little). The moderators have noted your opinions of the "mindsets" is not really part of the topic, and as has been noted, doesn't seem to accurately reflect anyone's thinking except the author's. Beyond that, the article erroneously claims ROCOR has only Sarum Rite WRITE parishes (there is also Christminster); the wording implies these ROCOR churches do not care about Old Calendar use (false); and seems to be stating Antioch has already determined to hand over its WR parishes to Rome, Canterbury, and the Anglican Continuum (Really? Source?). I am given to understand elsewhere you have accused OrthodoxWiki of trying to "shut down the discussion" or some-such by editing your article. But OrthodoxWiki is not a discussion forum; it's a place for uninformed readers to find verifiable facts. This entry, as you keep reposting it, may express your views, and inaccurate as I think they are, you are welcome to do express them in this country -- but continually reposting these kinds of blog-entry thoughts is inconsistent with the purpose and standards of OrthodoxWiki. I will make one final reversion and leave the rest to the moderators. (Sigh...) --[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 02:59, August 3, 2008 (UTC)
::: That's my impression, as well. It seems to me that most of this analytical material should be elsewhere, though I'm not really sure where.
:::::: Aristibule has it just right. This is private opinion and does not accurately represent anyone's views. This advocacy and private opinion simply has no place on OrthodoxWiki. Incidentally, Aristibule would be a great Sysop for WR matters; he's proven his knowledge and fairness throughout. (See the discussion section of any WR article, or how he has set the record straight on William Henry Francis Brothers' legacy.) --[[User:Willibrord|Willibrord]] 17:58, August 2, 2008 (UTC)
How cute. You've nominated *each other*. Very "objective".--[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 20:19, August 2, 2008 (UTC)
::::I'd be putting some of it in [[Western Rite in the Nineteenth Century]] or [[Western Rite in the Twentieth Century]] articles (the bits that aren't there already, anyway), but a lot of it is not universally accepted (thinking of the the 'catastrophist' and 'developmental' positions) and would make very good opinion pieces, rather than encyclopaedia articles, IMHO. I think you may be right about the WR Sysop, though... &mdash; by [[User:Pistevo|<font color="green">Pιs</font><font color="gold">τévο</font>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Pistevo|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]'' ''[[User talk:Pistevo/dev/null|<font color="red">complaints</font>]]''</sup> at 00:24, July 19, 2008 (UTC)
You've been misinformed. Brothers did claim to be Old Catholic - from the time he left his priesthood in the Russian Orthodox Church, until his death - as the Metropolitan Archbishop of the Old Catholic Church in America. He had already gone to Soviet Russia before when he was 'consecrated' by the Living Church movement. Within a year of being received into Orthodoxy by Bp Dositheus (Russian Orthodox - not 'Living Church'), he left to perform Old Catholic consecrations as an Old Catholic bishop: unaware he had been elected as a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church. The leadership passed to Dom Augustine (Whitfield) who took the body into ROCOR - where it remains to this day. 'Metropolitan-Archbishop Brothers' most interesting activity was in Ecumenicism: where he supported the claims and ministry of "Father Divine", as well as Billy Graham. The only contact with Orthodoxy he ever had was the one year he was a priest of Mount Royal under Bishop Dositheus. His 'communities' that joined the Milan Synod were Old Catholic, and never had Orthodox orders. The only community that he was ever associated with that became Orthodox was Mount Royal - and its former members (including novices) are to this day either still in ROCOR, the MP, or with the Antiochians. It helps to have access to archives - and the people who lived through it.You might find some illumination here:
The history linked leaves out the last four decades of his life except for celebrities he met. Great history. Really. --[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 01:01, August 3, 2008 (UTC)
Since we are currently locked in a debate about the current status of certain members of our Churches that are living I would venture to say that neither of us is acting objectively.--[[User:JosephSuaiden|JosephSuaiden]] 20:17, August 2, 2008 (UTC)

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